.380 Handgun
A friend recently asked me to recommend a .380 handgun. My recommendation was, and is, not to purchase a .380 handgun.
The .380 caliber made more sense years ago when no really good and very small 9mm handguns were available on the market. Back then, a Walther PPK in .380 caliber was sometimes a reasonable choice because its small size and weight provided significantly improved concealability.
Today, the existence of such fine firearms as the Kahr PM9 makes it quite difficult to justify the purchase of a .380 handgun.
At 16oz, the Kahr PM9 is a full five ounces lighter than the 21oz Walther PPK. It is also shorter than the PPK by more than half an inch — even though its barrel is a full inch longer. The PM9 is just under one tenth of an inch taller than the earlier .380.
The 9mm Parabellum (Luger) round used in the PM9 packs considerably more punch than the 9mm Short (Kurz) round used in the Walther PPK — about 65% more power. And yet, the Kahr PM9 is quite reasonably pleasant to shoot.
If you feel comfortable with more recoil, Kahr also makes a PM40. The PM40 is just one eighth of an inch wider than the PM9. The two handguns are virtually indistinguishable from each other — until you fire them. The .40 S&W cartridge is significantly more powerful than the 9mm Parabellum cartridge. The PM40 packs quite a kick in terms of recoil in return for the extra edge it gives you in firepower. I don’t recommend the PM40 for inexperienced shooters, but it is a fine little handgun.
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With todays Ammo, It’s Shot Placement, Not Size!!
September 8th, 2008 at 8:37 pm
Yes the PM9 may pack more of a punch then the .380 yes all that you said may be true. The only thing I have to say is with the PM 9 loaded it is a little heaver then a .380. I like the .380 because I can carry it any place I want to and it is not seen. Kenneth lambert.
November 4th, 2008 at 12:21 pm
I agree with Nick. It is all about shot placement. While bigger rounds to account for alot, any bullet will kill if it hits the right area of the body. I own a .38 S&w, a Walther .22, a Colt .45, and a .380. The only one a really use as a concealed carry is the .380. Its got more than enough firepower for me.
November 11th, 2008 at 1:51 pm
i own a bryco/jennings model 38 caliber 380. i just found out that the copany went out of bussiness andi need to get it repared. as i was shooting it , it jammed and the slide flew off on i lost the firing pin assembly and the take down button, ithink that is all that is lost. iwas wondering if you could tell me where i can get it fixed. thank you scott king
November 16th, 2008 at 7:33 am
Sorry, Boss; I can’t agree. My Kel-Tec P3AT is smaller and lighter than any 9mm. It fits where no 9mm will, and with their spiffy belt clip it will disappear beneath a belt but still remain handy. The barrel is shorter than the Kahr, so one must reload judiciously, but mine feeds SWC very reliably. No, it isn’t a 9mm, but the first rule of gun fighting is “have a gun.”
November 16th, 2008 at 10:42 pm
In agreement with Nick, shot placement is everything. What good is a larger caliber gun if you can’t hit anything with it. I’ve got a .380 ACP and an older (my fathers) .38 Special. I prefer the .38 Special, but it’s not very handy with quick draws from concealment. I’ve never had much with a 9mm, always seemed to shoot funny to me so I try and stay away from them.
November 18th, 2008 at 9:23 am
If you live in a cold climate where big winter coats are not out of the ordinary you can carry a full out .44 magnum or even the huge .500 s&w without arrising suspicion. First rule of a gunfight: have a gun. Second rule of a gun fight: have a BIG gun.
November 25th, 2008 at 11:20 pm
Scott…
Throw it in a scrap pile or wait till your town hasa gun buy back program and get a few bucks out of it that way.Your best bet would be to buy a Bersa or fire storm .380 (same gun just different names)or if you got to go cheap A Hi point isnt a bad gun but if you save up a few bucks you can get alot better.
December 12th, 2008 at 2:39 pm
I’ve been reading lots about placing the bullet,
I’m just wondering how many of us has ever had to shoot another human being outside of the military..?
I’ve seen it on TV, a cop with all his experience gets into a gun fight with a punk hoodlum and both miss each other, placing the shot is very important, but could you or I hit the mark.?,
I doubt it.
I’m looking to buy the Ruger LCP 380, to protect my wife and I only if the bad guy pulls his weapon first, I’ve got big fire arms, not practical to carry a 12 gauge in my pocket nor my 357 magnum, I’ve owned 44 mags, not my cup of powder, owned big bore rifles, I shoot a Winchester 243.
I want to conceal, not advertise.
Where can I find a Ruger LCP 380 at a reasonable price, I’ve seen the Kel-Tec 380, not impressed. I’m just a bad shot Okie.
Thanks.
December 14th, 2008 at 3:25 pm
I carry a sea camp .32. Its small, very easy to conceal and a great surprise to a would be mugger. Shot placement is very important and also the element of surprise.
December 23rd, 2008 at 4:14 pm
I’m sorry the KelTec didn’t impress you BadShot, but it’s not on a recall like the LCP. The KelTec isnt pretty, but it’s a great piece.
January 8th, 2009 at 6:43 pm
Look for an older Browning .380 ACP pistol. It’s light, small for concealment and reliable as hell. 13 round clip is better than most. It’s a .45 colt’s little brother with attitude.
” A gun is only as dangerous as the hand who holds it”
Peace
January 11th, 2009 at 3:19 am
I got a kelTec P11 in 9mm because it was small and light. And traded it off before I even chambered a round in it. The trigger is miserable, needs a shoe to keep from pinching. The trigger pull is terrible but I could have lived with it, but being double action only wouldn’t be accurate at more than 2-3 yards. I’ve got bad joints now and to pull the slide back on it was almost impossible, I couldn’t with my left hand, could if I held it with my left hand and pulled with the right, but only if I used a handkerchief or something to get a grip, not otherwise. A misfire in a bad situation and I would have been gone. I traded it for a .380 Bersa Thunder, and been happy since. I’ve got a full-size Ruger 9mm I love, but it’s too heavy for me for concealed carry, bad joints. The Bersa is just what I need.
January 19th, 2009 at 1:48 pm
I wouldn’t trade my Colt .380 for anything. It is small, lightweight, reliable and very concealable. I never carry my .45 or Browning 9mm. Just not concealable enough. A .380 with JHP ammo is quite remarkable and deadly. I shoot about 4000 to 5000 rounds a year with my handguns. Especially combat style human form targets. If you dont practice with a weapon there is no sense in carrying it.
January 21st, 2009 at 8:20 pm
I have a PPK/S with crimson trace laser grips
it’s small easy to conceal and hit’s where the red light land’s My wife and I HOPE we never have
to use it for any thing but fun!!!
January 22nd, 2009 at 2:11 am
I have the Bersa thunder .380 and I would not trade it for any thing, with jhp ammo it’s accurate and deadly at 25 yards
January 30th, 2009 at 7:39 pm
I HAVE A KEL TEC PF-9, AND IT IS VERY ACURRET OUT TO 30 YARDS AND FURTHER THOUGH THE TRIGER IS VERY HEAVY. THE GUN WILL PREFORM AS WELL AS THE OPERATOR CAN. MY BROTHER BOUGHT THE RUGER 380. IT ALSO IS AN OK GUN, BUT NOT MY PREFERANCE.
February 10th, 2009 at 9:26 pm
My carry always is the AMT backup in .380,no hammer,no safety,a little heavy in the trigger pull.An inside the belt holster and it is all but invisible.This is a point and pull weapon for the guy that wants my car or my wallet, etc.Not planning on any long range gunfights.Home invader would face a Mossberg Defender loaded with ball and buck or any of several handguns stached in appropriate places.The small gun you have is better than the big gun you don’t have
February 11th, 2009 at 6:59 pm
I recently purchased a Walther PPK. It’s a PRE S&W model made by Interarms and has fed and fired flawlessly each time I’ve used it. It is small enough to fit in my pocket and certainly enough fire power to stop anybody from doing anything they thought they wanted to do to me or my family.
Sure, if you were getting attacked you’d rather have a shot gun or big bore .45 or high capacity 9 in your hand…. problem is, most people would never carry such a weapon ALL THE TIME. My little PPK goes with me everywhere.
February 21st, 2009 at 5:03 pm
I have to agree with Rick F back in Nov. 2008. The first rule in a gunfight is to have a gun. I carry a Sig P232 (.380). Now I have to buy a gun for my daughter, but she refuses to shoot anything bigger than a .22 — and she’s extremely accurate with one.
What I stressed to my daughter is that SHE has to decide for herself whether she could actually shoot someone in an in extremis situation. I learned that myself one dark night at home when I thought someone had broken into the house. I was fully prepared MENTALLY to shoot to kill. Fortunately, it didn’t come to that. But mental preparation is essential. Otherwise, all you have is a loaded weapon that can be used against you.
February 22nd, 2009 at 9:25 pm
I Got my wife a russian 380 a little heavy but shoots great and hit where you aim it she likes it and so do I wish I had brought two back when you could get them at a good price. Like Alaricus in the colder states concelment not allways a proplem but here in the south big problem where common dress is T Shirt and jeans not so easy to hide
February 24th, 2009 at 1:06 pm
Thought I’d add my 2 cents. I have a handgun for all occasions, but, for year round concealed carry (in my pants pocket) I carry the Kel-Tec P3AT. Nothing better, or more reliable, and at 6 oz. isn’t hard to have with me all the time. I often empty a clip just to maintain familiarization. First shot is always a cloud of pocket lint, but, never a doubt about it’s reliability. It’s deadly at 5-10 yards and a second clip is just as easy to carry with it. Sure, there are bigger and far more accurate guns preferred, but, the P3AT will save the day. See how many are carried as a back-up in the law enforcement world. And if I ever carry a bigger gun, it won’t be a 9, especially when the bad guy is heavily clothed. It will be a 45. A 380 will save the day, but, the 45 puts them away and saves the taxpayers money. I agree with Carl R, prepare yourself mentally…always know what to do.
February 26th, 2009 at 12:19 am
Ihave a reminton model 358 lever action but for some reason the co. decideed to stop makeing the ammo. why?and what can I do about this matter
pep-a
February 27th, 2009 at 5:59 pm
I agree that shot placement is the key. Whereas a shotgun is the best defensive gun for most folks, it is obviously not practical to carry. If you attended Front Sight (I’m a life member – been numerous times), you’d see that dry practice is the key to placement as in a gun fight, you’ll be 50% as good as you are on your best day at the range. One of their motto’s is, “Any gun will do, if you will do.” I can’t agree more.
February 28th, 2009 at 12:21 pm
I agree that the early Browning 380 are great as a CC. They are smooth and you don’t even need a holster. Are there any problems with the sig 380 that I should know about? I have not had any trouble with mine, and it is a good shooter.
March 2nd, 2009 at 2:28 pm
hi, I have 45ACP, 357s, 9mm, 380, 22 Mag, and 1 of those snake killing 2 shoters in 10 gauge. I carry my Colt 380 daily. I am asingle action guy to the end. I tried the Kars, but hated the trigger on them. Maybe I tried a poorly made one? I have read so much on personal protection, that my head is too full of info these days. there seem to be 2 rules of thumb that always pop up: slow and heavy, or fast and small. For my daily carry, I always take my Colt 380 with very good ammo. Why? It is small. It is accurate. It is reliable. It is very easy to hide. I know it’s not the most popular man stopping caliber in the world, but I cannot say enough about shot placement. Nothing hapens unless you hit what you are shooting at and nothing counts much except a well placed shot. The Colts are a well made gun. Nothing cheap about them. I use 2 ball rounds followed by hollow points in the winter. I do this with all my guns. In the summer, i switch to all hollow points. This is because of heavy clothing worn in the winter by most. No matter what you carry. PRACTICE, PRACTICE. PRACTICE! Know your gun and it will serve you well when that dreaded time comes – if it does and we all hope it does not.
March 9th, 2009 at 8:45 am
I am female and I chose a Sig P232 (.380) as the 1st handgun that was truly mine. It is a good weight, solidly built, and reliable. I have since purchased a Beretta PX4 Storm and is my VERY favorite handgun (I love the kick and noise, especially when I load the cartridges myself), but still shoot my Sig as often as the .40 cal. The .40 cal is too large for me to conceal carry, but the Sig .380 is the perfect size. It is comfortable to use and easy to field strip. I am a firm believer that you need to handle an many firearms as it takes to find one that fits your hand like it belongs there. That is the gun you will carry and use.
March 16th, 2009 at 6:03 pm
I have to agree that a .380 is no longer the pocket rocket it use to be in light of the 9mm “small package” arms of current manufacture. I own a PPK/S and have for many years. It is my American Express card, I don’t leave home with out it. It also cuts the web of my hand everytime I shoot it, and it is very much on the heavy side by todays standards. It also saved me from a mauling in the henhouse one night, killing the Bobcat with a single shot. It may not be the best pocket gun today, but it is one of my all time favorite handguns.
March 20th, 2009 at 12:24 am
I had my CZ-83 .380 since 1986. A little on the wide side with a 13 round stack but I perfer to carry it or a PPK vice a 1911. The CZ has take different factory load and, so far, all the different reload I’ve made (using lead and jacketed bullets. I have yet to have either a feed or ejection failure. I am convinced I got the “plum” vice the lemon of the batch. Shot a 10 round sub-two inch group with reloads two days ago at 25 feet, more than accurate enough for the typical shoot-out range. I could not be happier with this gun.
March 20th, 2009 at 6:49 pm
I happen to own every gun the original writer mentioned and it is true the Kahr is a better gun. The problem is it comes with a kick that doesn’t bother me but does my 130 lbs lady. A Guardian .380 made better by Olgelsby is the ticket for her. She can pull the slide back easily. Let’s not forget the sometime weaker part of the population that due to gender or age or handicap can’t handle a 1911, so the saturday night special may fit them. Secondly cops love that and AMT’s and Kel-tec’s for back-up.
April 1st, 2009 at 11:47 am
I used to carry a Walther P22 when I was a firm believer that shot placement was the most important aspect in a defensive situation, and that I liked the .22LR cartridge. But then a self defense instructor told me two things that changed my mind. First, he told me that lethality is not stopping power. He told me yes, I could bring down a person with a shot to the heart or brain with my .22, but I could also do that with a .500 S&W Magnum. I can shoot the assailant’s leg with the .22 and not stop him, but I could shoot the leg with the .500 magnum and completely erase his fiery will to attack me. That brought the conversation to the second lesson. In a real life self defensive situation, I would perform less than fifty percent compared to my best days at the range. So I carry the Ruger LCR when warm and wearing thin clothing, and S&W M&P .40c when cold and easy to conceal with a jacket. This way, when a real assailant comes after me, I could make a rough and quick double tap to center mass or below and hopefully stop him when I can’t run away from him, instead of carefully aligning my sight to the fastly approaching assailant and shooting with a single action trigger pull to the heart or brain with my “lethal” small bore gun.
April 25th, 2009 at 2:41 pm
I am sorry my mistake. I have the LCP, and not the LCR, I apologize my typo. Also, the instructor meant that one should carry the caliber that produces the biggest energy down range and still shoot proficiently. So, for my ten year old daughter, her best caliber will be a .22, for my wife will be a 9mm, and for me, the balance of shot placement and energy is best reached with a .40 S&W. For me, stronger caliber handguns than the .40 means slower followup shots and usually my hand isn’t fit to grab the meaty grip of the gun. I, by any means, support “bigger is better” over shot placement. The instructor meant achieving both without compromising each other on an individual basis was the important aspect in choosing a carry gun.
April 26th, 2009 at 5:02 pm
Colt government model in .380. I carry it everywhere and I can hit what I aim at. Not as powerful as a 9, but a 9 is not as powerful as a .45acp nor is a .45 as powerful as a .475 Ruger and on and on. Carry what you shoot well with and can conceal well. Practice, practice, practice and if you every have to shoot for effect (I hope you never do) let your training and experience take over and don’t think about anything but survival until it’s all over. Then you can worry about what you’ve done.
April 28th, 2009 at 10:03 am
Many years ago I purchased a Bersa .380 an have yet
to locate a 9mm that I can shoot as accurate at 25
feet. If you handload your ammo, there is not as much difference in velocity as media lets on. I like
a .380 for its size and intended usage.
April 29th, 2009 at 9:00 am
I was the victim (recent) of a home invasion by 2 thugs both armed w/ Glock 9’s. I was unable to get to anything of size, and I was at their mercy. The lil Jennings .380 I had was promptly relegated to a 3rd string position. All the talk about bullet placement, practicality of carry, and willpower… has value. But, I dropped my guard for 30 seconds and BOOM! I won’t go into details, but I thank God I am here. The American motto about horsepower is spot on. Gimme a bigger caliber, a heavy slug, and capacity. Until you pop a guy in a tense situation with a lil 80-90 grain slug, you will never ralize that 250+ lbs guys don’t read the forums about cavitation, double-taps or anything else. 380? Sure! If there is nothing and I mean NOTHING else to be had. I consider the 9mm marginal , now. In a fight there is NO time to line up and do the drill. You will be off-balance and running on nerves. A slight hit with a brick is more effective than a hard thump with a pebble. Gimme a Magnum, a Gov’t model, or even a shotgun! LOL!
May 4th, 2009 at 5:05 pm
My wife and I both carry the Ruger 380LCP. With the wallet style holster it is very handy. 7 Shots at close range (less than 20′ ) will stop anyone up to a sumo wrestler! And in most instances confortations requiring pulling your pistol will at close range.
May 28th, 2009 at 11:57 pm
hi hi hi point 380, 70.00$ all i could afford.
June 9th, 2009 at 4:55 pm
A pistol you have in your hand is vastly better than one that is back home, or in the car, or whatever. I have a Ruger LCP and love how easy it is to carry. I have a KelTec PF-9 with lots more power but a bit harder to keep in a pocket. I have a Bersa Thunder .380 that is like a target pistol compared to these others. I love shooting it, it fits my hand and works perfectly. I hand load and have some hot HP loads for it. I also have a CZ75 and a Beretta PX-4 I like but they are a bit big to carry around. But, its hard to beat that PX-4 with 21 rounds in it.
So its all about having something close. No one gun is best for all situations. It depends on where you are and what you can manage to have. My LCP stays in the pocket. The PF-9 can go in a jacket or a fanny pack. The bigger 9mm CZ and Beretta are close at hand at home. I pray I will never need any of them for anything but range practice but if it comes between some drug addict or a family member or myself, the bad guy will have to take a fall.
If a .380 is what you have with you when the stuff hits the fan, then its the best gun at that moment.
The power of the .380 is very similar to the old Colt .36 caliber Naval Revolver of Civil War and Wild West fame. Many a man was made to meet his maker with that gun. Seems it had enough power to do the job. Why would a .380 then not do the same?
June 13th, 2009 at 9:54 pm
In Vegas if you get the permit it is perfectly acceptable to cary a Colt SAA and let me tell you I feel much safer with that gun that with anyother gun on the world.
June 15th, 2009 at 8:38 pm
After the first sentence I expected the usual “get a 1911″ statement. IMHO, any discussion regarding caliber or accuracy for personal self defense is irrelevant. If a firearm comes into play for self protection, it will most likely be pressed against the threat when fired. Anything else may NOT be considered self defense. Having a concealable firearm that is dependable 100% of the time is paramount.
June 18th, 2009 at 2:43 pm
Since when is a Kahr PM9 a fine weapon? It’s an overpriced DOA plastic toy with no safety, no thanks…… I’ll keep my beautiful safetied stainsless SA/DA Walther PPK loaded with Corbon hollow points 1100 fps……
June 20th, 2009 at 4:33 am
Have many handguns. I prefer the .45 thunder ranch w/light and laser for home defense. for concealed carry I love the Kahr pm40. Had lot of misfeeds when first bought. Sent back to factory and have had none since. Second choice for concealed carry is my walther PPS. Very dependable and concealable. I use the desantis inside the waist holster w/ extra mag pouch, just have to wear a bigger size pants. Met a medical examiner from Dallas who has attested that many .380’s do the job. I just like the .40 cause it will smash thru bone when the shot placement isn’t quite where you want it.
June 20th, 2009 at 11:26 pm
Does anybody have experience/knowledge of the Mauser HSc .380 pocket pistol? Would be interested in hearing about from anybody familiar with this WW II German officer piece, including any comments on German loading data that might be compared to U.S. commercial cartridges.
June 23rd, 2009 at 8:19 pm
BeenThere: I could be mistaken, but it sounds to me like you would have been at their mercy no matter what size gun you had, considering you couldn’t get to one.
Are you trying to say you got to the .380, and it was insufficient? I would assume you could only tell if it were insufficient if you shot the attackers with it and they didn’t drop.
July 30th, 2009 at 8:35 am
The 380 is an excellant round, as any bullet placement is imperative. I have the Bersa thunder 380 and also the Magnum Research Micro Eage, much smaller than the Bersa and concealable in any clothing. – only 12 ounces.
August 9th, 2009 at 7:04 am
sorry – typo – Magnum Research Micro Eagle – very subcompact 380.
August 9th, 2009 at 7:05 am
I own a Kahr CW40 and a Kal-tec 380. They both have advantages and disadvantages. For a powerful round, the 40 cal. is a great choice. But for conceal carry, you can’t beat the Kal-tec. It’s deadly in close quarters and accurate enough at 10 yards or less. Federal Hydrashock ammo or Corbon ammo is a great choice. However, if I am wearing a jacket or a loose shirt I’ll opt for the Kahr.
August 10th, 2009 at 7:52 pm
Carried a Star PD 45 and a Star BKM 9mm for 30+ years. Still have them but I try guns out. Like them both But I do have a Colt Pony Pocket Lite 380 and it is always on me. Very comfortable. Use 95 gr FMJ Rems. and shoot it alot. Want penetration. Very accurate and fast at 7yds. This lead me to buy a CW 40 and a PM9 for my girl friend. Both Kahr’s are more comfortable than 1911s and they are in a substantial cal.for a Belly gun. No hammer in your belly. They don’t rust either as a HSc, Colt 1903 or a PPk which I tried years ago. The size of the Colt requires a holster but I do like it and it is the gun I will never give up. A colt 380 is a piece of cake in hot climate in shorts.
September 4th, 2009 at 5:48 pm
IF YOU THINK .380 IS TOO SMALL A CALIBRE YOU NEED TO TRY EXTREME SHOCK .95 GR. FANG FACE IT CONTAINS A DEFRACTOR PLATE INSIDE IT AFTER 2-3 INCHES OF PENETRATION IN BALLISTIC JELLITIN IT “BLOWS 90 DEGREES” CREATING A TEMPORARY STRECH CAVITY NEARLY EQUAL TO A .357 FROM A 2″ BBL –ITS ALL ABOUT THE MILLISECONDS THE ENERGY IS RELEASED AND THERE IS NO PEER ON THE MARKET NOT EVEN GLASER OR MAGSAFE PROVEN IN THE STRAUSSBURG GOAT TESTS –JUST LOOK UP EXTREME SHOCK AMMO. GET WITH THE TIMES NEW BULLETS HAVE BROUGHT.380 UP TO THE STOPPING POWER OF A .38SPL. IF ANY OF THIS IS OVER YOUR HEAD THINK TWICE ABOUT OWNING ANY GUN REASERCH!!!!!!!! FOR YOURSELF I CARRY COLT.380 WITH EX. SHOCK AFTER TESTING I DEFINATLY AM NOT UNDERGUNNED I CAN HIT MY MARK DONT NEED MORE RECOIL OR “BIGGER BULLETS” IF ONLY YOU BUILD A KNOWLEGE BASE TO WORK FROM INSTEAD OF OTHER PEOPLES OPINIONS YOU’LL BE OK!!!!
October 9th, 2009 at 5:19 pm
Has anyone in the shooting fraternity heard of Bersa? They have a 9mm Thunder 9 Ultra Compact w/ 13+1 magazine that is really a neat pistol..fits small hands and the mag extension is real comfy. Loaded chamber indicator, key to lock the gun integral in the frame, reversable mag release, decocker. Good price and concealable.
October 15th, 2009 at 8:43 am
I’ll second the Bersa for a well-made, dependable, inexpensive pistol. I carry the 9mm Ultra Compact Stainless model. It’s a tad heavy and a little wide to be ideal, but it is my everyday carry because it conceals okay, shoots straight and I know it will shoot every time. I have a Walther PPK/s St. Etienne, a CZ 85 Combat, a CZ 82, a Ruger LCP and a Colt Detective Special–all very fine handguns for their purpose, and all easily concealable (except for the CZ 85), but the Bersa 9UC is the one I trust for self defense. BTW, my wife’s carry gun is the Bersa Thunder 380 DLX.
October 25th, 2009 at 6:19 am